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monsterzero Frequent Listener


Joined: 07 Sep 2004 Posts: 30 Location: Ottawa, Canada 
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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:31 am Post subject: Canadian Satellite Radio Applications DOA |
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Sorry, but the two current "Canadian" satellite radio applications are DOA: dead on arrival.
The CRTC will not license XM and Sirius without specific and meaningful Canadian Content commitments on their music channels... and there is no way that XM and Sirius are going to play 35% CanCon on Top 20 at 20. End of discussion.
What the applicants are suggesting -- ghettoising Canadian music on two or four "Canadian" channels (half English, half French) -- runs contrary to thirty years of broadcasting policy, and will damage the Canadian music and broadcasting industries.
Have you seen the proposed programming grid for the XM Canadian channel? It's a joke: a half-hour all-Canadian blues show followed by a half-hour all-Canadian new age show. No one will want to listen to it. It is tokenism, and the CRTC won't buy it.
The satellite proposals are insulting to every terrestrial commercial broadcaster in Canada, who are required to play 35% CanCon during the broadcast day. It would be grossly unfair for them to have to compete with a service with not only no ads, but no CanCon requirements. The Canadian Association of Broadcasters is going to object very strenuously, as well they should. Specialist broadcasters -- like jazz and classical stations -- have a lot to lose, too.
If you allow XM and Sirius to broadcast without CanCon, you will have to let all the terrestrial broadcasters do the same... and it will be a cold day in Hell before that ever happens in Canada.
Moan and bitch all you want about CanCon, and about how much you hate commercial radio in Canada. I agree with you (about the commercial radio part, anyway), but these applications are going only one place: into the CRTC trash can. |
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JJS Freak


Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 286

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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Does Canada have its own S-band allocation?
If so, licensing it might allow a satellite radio provider to add to overall capacity, with Canada calling the shots for that one range of frequencies. Authorities might limit Canadian subscribers to those frequencies but allow American subscribers to listen to everything, thereby providing American subscriber support for both Canadian satellite infrastructure and Canadian content.
JJS |
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JBT XM + O&A = More Gooder


Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Posts: 129 Location: Ta-Ranna, ON. 
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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian Satellite Radio Applications DOA |
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| monsterzero wrote: |
The CRTC will not license XM and Sirius without specific and meaningful Canadian Content commitments on their music channels... and there is no way that XM and Sirius are going to play 35% CanCon on Top 20 at 20. End of discussion. |
I agree with you however you forgot about the darkhorse in all of this. CHUM's proposal is set to use various Cell towers across the country to deliver a "nationwide" signal...
If they set their own programming they will have a shot. _________________ Get Lazlow a full time show!!! |
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monsterzero Frequent Listener


Joined: 07 Sep 2004 Posts: 30 Location: Ottawa, Canada 
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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian Satellite Radio Applications DOA |
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| JBT wrote: | I agree with you however you forgot about the darkhorse in all of this. CHUM's proposal is set to use various Cell towers across the country to deliver a "nationwide" signal...
If they set their own programming they will have a shot. |
Yes, CHUM has a serious shot at this. Unproven tech, though. |
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SkyListen Average Listener


Joined: 11 Jul 2004 Posts: 20 Location: White Rock, BC 
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian Satellite Radio Applications DOA |
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Hello.
As you can probably imagine, for the sake of this debate, I couldn't disagree with you more. Though your points are well made.
I think both Sirius and XM have an excellent shot. I don't believe the CRTC will bury it's head on this one and screw it up the way they did with Satellite television. (Look at the grey/black market problems we're facing up here. Drive down any street in White Rock and you'll see far more DirecTV dishes than Express-Vu.)
Let's face it, XM and Sirius will continue to be available in Canada, it's up to the CRTC to decide if they want at least partial control of the medium, or none at all. At present I can think of 4 stores within a 10 minute drive here in BC who will install either a Sirius or XM radio, activate it, and the Canadian government is getting absolutely nothing out of it.
If you listen to the XM channels you'll realize that a fair percentage (don't know what it might be) of songs you hear are Canadian because they are good Canadian songs.
I believe it is time to review broadcasting policy. It only seems to work for stations in large Canadian markets anyway. The rest of the stations are almost all losing money. Can we agree that the current AM/FM regulations only work for the government, but do absolutely nothing for the conglomerates that own the stations, nor the listeners who suffer through the commercials to hear the same Fe Fe Dobson track for the 10th time that day.
Yes, I have looked at the XM broadcast schedule and to be honest what I saw was more of a television schedule than a radio one. XM already have strictly formatted stations, whether it's 50's music or Rap, why should these new Canadian channels follow that same rigid programming logic. I don't remember the schedule off by heart but I do know there were a bunch of interesting shows that I would probably target tune if given the chance. Would I listen 24/7.. definitely not. But I don't think that's the purpose of their Canadian channels.
If you want to read an insulting proposal check out the CHUM proposal. They are promising the world and have no real basis to deliver it, since that would involve repeaters all over the place not to mention a radio specifically built for subscription listening. I can't see the auto companies getting in there, nor can I see people buying one specific brand of radio because that's what is available. Look at the mess CHUM & Co. already made with DAB. You would think they'd learn a lesson instead of putting good money after bad. If any application should raise red flags all over the place it's this apparent attempt by Chum to derail the entire process. How much longer CHUM LTD will stay in the radio game is anyones guess anyway. But that's for another thread.
I'm not so sure that this decision might not affect the entire CRTC view on radio broadcasting. You might just see the Cancon levels lowered and some much needed reforms to the broadcasting act being made.
I'm hopeful anyway. I guess we will all know in a few months.
Hugh _________________ -------------------------------------------------------
Hugh McBride
http://skylisten.com
Canadian Satellite Radio Information Portal |
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JBT XM + O&A = More Gooder


Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Posts: 129 Location: Ta-Ranna, ON. 
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Where can we find CHUM's proposal? I'd love to have a look at it _________________ Get Lazlow a full time show!!! |
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tranquileye Average Listener


Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 11 Location: Ottawa, Canada 
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Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian Satellite Radio Applications DOA |
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| SkyListen wrote: | | I think both Sirius and XM have an excellent shot. I don't believe the CRTC will bury it's head on this one and screw it up the way they did with Satellite television. |
Having had access to Directv for awhile, I found it superior in many ways to the comparable Canadian service, Expressvu. It isn't really a matter of the amount of Canadian programming, since much of it is good, but the variety and quality of programming mix overall. The US services tend to have more choice.
I think its fair to say that a lot of the Canadian interest in Directv and Dish Network has been driven by the black market: US services were something you could get at a price close to zero. As far as I can tell, XM and Sirius haven't been hacked; the subscription cost is low and the hardware not exactly a breeze to get into. Yes, there is a grey market for XM and Sirius, but it has no where near the impact Directv and Dish have.
| SkyListen wrote: | | Let's face it, XM and Sirius will continue to be available in Canada, it's up to the CRTC to decide if they want at least partial control of the medium, or none at all. |
That's the argument the applicants are making as well: Canada-only sat radio will never fly in Canada, so the Commission should take what it can get. I just can't imagine the CAB or the community broadcasters accepting that. If XM doesn't have to do CanCon, why should they? The Commission doesn't want to go there.
| SkyListen wrote: | | Can we agree that the current AM/FM regulations only work for the government, but do absolutely nothing for the conglomerates that own the stations, nor the listeners who suffer through the commercials to hear the same Fe Fe Dobson track for the 10th time that day. |
I don't have any sympathy for the Canadian commercial stations. They are among the least creative broadcasters in the world. The regs are actually pretty loose and they self-regulate. If they lose money, its because they aren't providing a service that people want to use. The regs are an excuse.
| SkyListen wrote: | | Yes, I have looked at the XM broadcast schedule and to be honest what I saw was more of a television schedule than a radio one. XM already have strictly formatted stations, whether it's 50's music or Rap, why should these new Canadian channels follow that same rigid programming logic. |
I think the Canadian XM channels are terrible. Yes, there is some CBC programming in there and some shows that makes sense, but mostly it looks like a dog's breakfast. Why would anyone switch from Audio Visions to get a half-hour of Canadian new age? I prefer the Sirius/CBC application over the XM, but not by much.
| SkyListen wrote: | | If you want to read an insulting proposal check out the CHUM proposal. They are promising the world and have no real basis to deliver it, since that would involve repeaters all over the place not to mention a radio specifically built for subscription listening. |
My guess is that they get approved. I agree with your comments, and it's a long shot that what they are doing will actually work, but its the kind of thing the Commission might go for in the short-term.
| SkyListen wrote: | | I'm not so sure that this decision might not affect the entire CRTC view on radio broadcasting. You might just see the Cancon levels lowered and some much needed reforms to the broadcasting act being made. |
They will die before lowering the CanCon requirements. If the Tories had been elected, there is a small chance that it might have happened, but not now. It is the cornerstone of the radio regulations and not trivial to mess with.
My take on CanCon is probably different from yours. I've been generally supportive over the years, but I don't want the regs to help create a Canadian media elite that doesn't innovate and pays lip service to Canadian culture. I've also seen how CanCon can actually limit choice and risk-taking by broadcasters. That being said, no CanCon, no Canadian music industry. _________________ "Underground radio meant something because it said something..."
~ Pioneer FM deejay Charles Laquidara
Free Media Archive
http://www.tranquileye.com/free/ |
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Jeff Cobner SirCrapsALot


Joined: 20 May 2003 Posts: 7620 Location: Richmond, VA 
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Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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I am sure this will accelerate the bootleg radios already in that country. _________________ Toyota Scion XA 46.6 mpg
Mercedes (Oo[=i=]oO) 240 D 33 mpg
Hey, its me, the first guy who kept calling and hanging up. |
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cptn-canada Stupendous Man rescuing cookies everywhere!


Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 6387 Location: Everywhere there's a satellite signal... 
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Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeff Cobner wrote: | | I am sure this will accelerate the bootleg radios already in that country. |
We don't bootleg, we dabble in Grey Market Technology  _________________ ¤¤¤ I can't lie about an opinion, it's my opinion. ¤¤¤ |
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XM in Dallas Moderator/XMelot #3/XM Suck-up/PLM/IE8-elot


Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Posts: 44631 Location: Dallas, Texas 
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:24 am Post subject: Re: Canadian Satellite Radio Applications DOA |
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| tranquileye wrote: | | That being said, no CanCon, no Canadian music industry. |
So why is it again that the Canadian music industry can't survive in the free market? And if it really can't survive, then why should inferior music be subsidized? Can you imagine if the U.S. had a classic rock station that only allowed artists who are American citizens? _________________ Classic Vinyl/Classic Rewind: Why have one great channel when you can have two crappy ones instead?
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tranquileye Average Listener


Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 11 Location: Ottawa, Canada 
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Canadian Satellite Radio Applications DOA |
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| XM in Dallas wrote: | | So why is it again that the Canadian music industry can't survive in the free market? |
If the free market had created a Canadian music industry in the 1960s, CanCon wouldn't have been needed, but prior to 1971, it really didn't exist. I'm not just talking about musicians, but producers, recording engineers, venues, promoters, and so on.
Canada has traditionally been a branch plant economy -- major industries owned and controlled by the US. The US has a huge domestic market for cultural products, ten times larger than Canada. Great profits can be made just within the US, so the US "dumps" there entertainment products internationally at relatively low prices. Other, smaller countries -- not just Canada -- find it harder to compete on production (paid for by huge domestic sales) and price.
One concern has been cultural: wanting to see something of ourselves in the mass media that we are paying for. The other is purely economic: entertainment is big business, and if we don't have our own industry, then all the money will leave the country and make someone else rich. As George Grant wrote, "Branch-plant economies have branch-plant cultures." And Canadians want their own culture.
| XM in Dallas wrote: | | And if it really can't survive, then why should inferior music be subsidized? |
It isn't a matter of artistic quality: Canadian musicians are just as talented as American ones. It's about giving them an opportunity to find an audience in the wake of a flood of US cultural products. In the past forty years, since CanCon was introduced, Canada has produced numerous acts in all musical genres that have gone on to international success. Without the launching pad of Canadian radio, that wouldn't have happened.
| XM in Dallas wrote: | | Can you imagine if the U.S. had a classic rock station that only allowed artists who are American citizens? |
The majority of music played on a US classic rock station would be American, so the US doesn't have to have any rules promoting American artists. However, if it were something like softwood lumber or steel or agriculture, where the US seems to have trouble competing, you can be sure that there would be rules to help American musicians. The American commitment to free speech and free markets is miles wide, but sometimes inches deep. _________________ "Underground radio meant something because it said something..."
~ Pioneer FM deejay Charles Laquidara
Free Media Archive
http://www.tranquileye.com/free/ |
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tranquileye Average Listener


Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 11 Location: Ottawa, Canada 
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monsterzero Frequent Listener


Joined: 07 Sep 2004 Posts: 30 Location: Ottawa, Canada 
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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:57 pm Post subject: Five minutes... |
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Only five minutes left to send in your positive interventions on behalf of the Canadian satellite radio applications
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/Hearings/2004/n2004-6.htm _________________ --
"free the media and your mind will follow."
Viva la Weirdoloucion!
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JBT XM + O&A = More Gooder


Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Posts: 129 Location: Ta-Ranna, ON. 
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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Funny you say that... This e-mail was just forwarded to me.
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There is an extremely important movement underway to bring satellite radio to Canada. We need letters and emails sent on behalf of Sirius Radio, to the CRTC by September 15th latest. (That’s this Wednesday). Please click on the link below to see:
* Why you should support SIRIUS CANADA
* How satellite radio benefits Canadians
* What satellite radio means to the success of the Canadian music industry
Please visit the link below to send your letter of support today:
www.siriusradiocanada.com/intervention.html
Thanks in advance…we really need your help to make this happen…please be sure to follow the instructions and send your letter within the next 48 hours.
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Looks like somebody is scrambling  _________________ Get Lazlow a full time show!!! |
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monsterzero Frequent Listener


Joined: 07 Sep 2004 Posts: 30 Location: Ottawa, Canada 
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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:44 am Post subject: Too little, too late |
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| JBT wrote: | Looks like somebody is scrambling  |
Too little, too late. The other industry players, who run the CRTC like a toy train most of the time, have already killed the satellite radio applicants. Should be fun at the hearings watching these guys defend their cancon provisions, especially XM. What a horrible channel that Northern Lights would be. _________________ --
"free the media and your mind will follow."
Viva la Weirdoloucion!
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